The Guardian interviews Archbishop Peter Akinola
CONN/090206
Recently, Patience Saduwa (PS) of the Guardian Newspapers interviewed Archbishop Peter Akinola on some current issues in the country. The interview was published in the Ecumenical pages of Nigeria’s Sunday Guardian of 29th January, 2006. (http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/ibru_center/article05 link may change after 4th Feb. 2006)
Full text of the interview is reproduced below courtesy Guardian Newspapers Limited.:
Obasanjo's Alleged Third Term Bid is an Illusion, Says Akinola
Most Rev. Peter Jasper Akinola is the Primate and Metropolitan of the Church of Nigeria, Anglican Communion. He recently led the over ninety bishops of the church for the annual bishops' retreat of the church at the Ibru Ecumenical Centre, Agbarha-Otor, Delta State. He spoke with PATIENCE SADUWA on both church and national issues including power shift, the alleged third term bid, Constitutional review, the government's anti-corruption crusade, new Warri bishop and other issues.
Excerpts:
Power shift and Nigerian 2007 Elections
Primate: It's rather unfortunate that anybody will have the audacity to say that power is their own. All powers belong to God Almighty and he gives it, to whoever he wishes. That’s our position in the church of God. God gives power to whoever He calls to provide leadership at any point in time. What I said at the occasion of the Armed Forces Remembrance Day recently was that those who are saying that they are born to rule, and that nobody else should rule this country, should go and do a rethink. This is because Nigeria is made up of six geo-political zones. We should look for the best from these zones.
Since Nigeria has six geo-political zones, you no longer talk of North and South. The dichotomy of North and South has been removed. My prayer is that the day will come in this country when Nigerians will be so united that they will say, oh, Mr. so and so in that place has wonderful qualities, let's go and get him to come and help, rather than saying it's our turn. You go and put mediocres just because it's your turn whether the person has the qualities or not. I think we have gone beyond that stage.
We should go for the best wherever he is, for the good of this country. That’s the way it should be. Instead of saying it's our turn as if you have been ordained to rule. There are over 130 million people in the country so how can somebody say power is residual in their own territory and no where else. If anybody holds that view, it's an invitation to anarchy and chaos, so the earlier they give it up, the better.
If it's a man or woman who has what it takes to take Nigeria to great heights, I will vote for him or her regardless of where he comes from. I'm not that parochial to say my leader must come from A or B. As far as he is a Nigerian who has the greatest interest of the country at heart.
PS: But there is the argument that the country is not mature enough for that kind of arrangement?
Therefore, we must remain backward forever? The Chinese say the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. So even if we have not got there yet, we must be seen to be making serious effort towards getting to the best practice. Rome was not built in a day.
Alleged third term bid by Mr. President
Primate: For me, that's an illusion. People are talking about third term but has the President ever said he was going for third term? He has even denied it several times both at home and abroad.
The Constitution does not allow it. And he is not just a Nigerian leader but a world leader. So, you think he will want to tarnish his own image? He is a force to be reckoned with in the affairs of the world today. Those who are talking about it are gaining from it. There are many Nigerians who specialize in fomenting trouble. And they feed fat in chaos. To me it's a non-issue. He has denied it several times. If the man comes out and asks Nigerians to give him another chance, that is when I can comment. For now, I have no comment about third term. Other than to warn those orchestrating it to be careful.
Constitutional review and alleged secret agenda
Primate: There are so many sections in the Constitution that are being amended not just one section. There were some sections that were recommended by the executive arm, the National Assembly and other stakeholders. When the National Assembly has done its work, for it to be signed into law, there are three or four stages. You must secure 2/3 majority in the House and of all the states. You also need to secure presidential assent to it and that's a long way. That's the procedure. It takes time. And by the time they come out with it, the Nigerian people will have to say, yes that's the Constitution we want or not, through a referendum.
The legislators are paid with our money and have been sent there to work on our behalf for good governance. We are their employers, so if they do anything we don't like, we tell them so.
There are many flaws in our Constitution, which they have discovered and they are trying to amend them so that we can have a more workable document to work with for the nation. That's the way I see it. If anybody says there's another agenda, good luck to them.
PS: The anti-corruption crusade of the government claimed some top people in the country in 2005. Do you see more falling this year?
Nothing has happened yet. How many are they? One or two governors and an ex-Inspector General of Police. There are worse people in Nigeria. There are people who are in government today who are much worse than those who have fallen but have not been exposed for whatever reason. The daredevils are still there. So, I will call on Mr. President not to relent for a second. We thank him for daring to do what he has done so far. The entire Church of God is behind him and we pray for him everyday. We encourage him so he has nothing to fear or lose.
This thing called corruption has so bedevilled and destroyed this country so much. Nothing gets done without some form of corruption or other. If this is the only battle he can fight and win, alleluia. He should still go ahead and pursue all those monsters, sacred cows, and untouchables and fire the ‘fireables’ and jail the ‘jailables’ so as to sanitise the polity.
Until that is done, his work is not done No! He has not gone anywhere yet because in fighting corruption, he has a long way to go. We wish him well. Corruption is everywhere, in the church, bank, and industry. And not only in politics or civil service. This war against corruption is of God because God does not condone evil. Corruption is evil therefore; the war against it is godly. And because of that, God will still raise more people who will be able to do even better, than the previous ones.
On agreement signed between Church of Nigeria and some American churches
Primate: The agreement we signed with them is that of co-operation and working together particularly in the area of mission and evangelism. They realized that we are totally committed to the work of evangelization and mission in our country and they want to see how we are doing it. They want to come and learn from us. We are in their country and are establishing a Church of Nigeria there and we also will need their support for accommodation and facilities so it's a co-operation with those who share the same ideas and beliefs with us. We want to see how we can work together for the common good, both here and in their country for the promotion of the kingdom of God. The churches that have agreed to co-operate with us happen to be the smallest groups of Christian communities in America, the Reformed Episcopal Church and Anglican Province in America. They broke away from the Episcopal Church many years ago because of the wrong doctrines of the Episcopal Church and we just discovered that they and we agree in doctrine and in practice. So we co-operate and work together. The co-operation has just started so it’s too early to assess the gains. But so far, I can say its working out well. They have been a pillar of support to our people in that country and they will be coming here too to see how we are doing things. It's going to be reciprocal.
PS: What is CAN's position on the forthcoming census?
Primate: We are requesting, pleading and appealing to the President and the government to include what we believe is very dear, to our heart, which is religion and ethnicity on the data form. And it's good for this country. It's my right to know that there is X- number of Christians or Muslims in this country. For those of us who travel overseas, we hear all kinds of stories, that, oh, Nigeria is a Christian country, it's a Muslim country, and all kinds of controversy. This census promises to be one of the best ever, as its going to be scientific, transparent, open, they should also include ethnicity and religion in the form so that everybody knows for once who are, where we are and how many. I'm a Christian, it's my right to know how many other Christians there are with me in Nigeria. It's my right to know. Also bear in mind, there are states in this country where if you don't belong to a particular religion, you are treated as a second-class citizen. Religion is used to oppress those who don't belong to their profession. They even say in some places, that you don't exist at all. But when you have this kind of figures that show that in this particular state, there are X-number of Christians or Muslims, that solves the problem once and for all. You won't be assuming anymore. You have Christians and Muslims every where in Nigeria but lets know how many we are to put a stop to these speculations we have been doing all these years. We have written and met with the President on the issue. I have been requested by the council to go back and still appeal to Mr. President to consider our plea. When we've exhausted all avenues of dialogue and pleading, we know that at the end of the day, we will get there.
On alleged high fees charged at Ajayi Crowther University
Primate: I don't know the exact figure being charged but all I can say is that as a church, we are not interested in any elitist programme. At the same time, you must bear in mind that a lot of money has gone into the planning of that institution. It is extremely capital intensive, and if the workers there - and that includes the lecturers- have to be paid appropriate remunerations so as to maintain a quality staff, to ensure quality productivity, then we have to agree on the price that will ensure that you achieve the kind of result you are looking for. Education is not cheap. We have been under the illusion in this country for so many years that government can do everything. But it's not true. You and I know better today that government does not have the capacity to do everything. The fact that people are willing to go there and pay whatever price that is charged is for me an indication that people accept the fact that what is being charged is reasonable. And I have not received a single complaint so far from any parent or student. Accommodation alone will cost N95, 000 per annum. These things are not cheap. Nothing is cheap. And we are not taking any government subvention or grant. Whatever we are doing is with our money. So if we are to keep the shop open and remain in business, then we must charge a fee that is commensurate to our input.
PS: But will these (high fees) not discourage a large section of the public who might be interested, from attending the school considering the high poverty rate in the country?
Primate: I don't think so. The school is not a charity school. I can say that categorically we have charity programmes that we give to people. There are those we give scholarships and bursaries so whoever qualifies for loans or charity offerings, we give them. But as far as the school is concerned, there must be standards and quality control. And if you want these, you have to pay for it.
New bishop for Warri diocese
Primate: I cannot give you a date. Their not having a bishop is not a punishment because the absence of a bishop will affect the spiritual life and administration of the diocese negatively. I, as the Primate cannot be happy over the situation, that they are not having a bishop. So if you remember what led to their not having a bishop, then you will agree with me that I have to be very cautious this time around not to go ahead and give them a bishop lest somebody say, oh, we don't want this one again. But with time, when the environment is conducive enough, of course, we shall give them a bishop. Warri is one of the oldest dioceses. So its not having a bishop is like having sheep without a shepherd, having a state without a governor.
PS: Was 2005 a sad year for CON considering that it lost two bishops?
Primate: Personally, yes and for the church. I did not expect that I will be burying any bishop but then when it happens, as a human being, I try to find out if there was any reasonable explanation. And there was none. So I have to submit to God. After all, all of us are in his hands. He gives life and he takes life so God's name be praised.
Achieving retreat objectives
In the sense that the programme that was drawn up has been fully implemented, to that extent, yes. The results will become more manifest in the course of the year as all the participants begin to put into practise the things they have gained at the retreat. That can't be assessed at this level. But going by the enthusiasm, and general reaction to what we have done, one hopes that God helping us, there will be full implementation of the various things we have agreed to do.
Challenges of being a Primate
Primate: I' m on retreat now and supposed to be relaxing. But how can you gather 94 bishops together and say you are relaxing? (Laughter). These are people from different backgrounds and you want all of them to see things your way. But note that, none of them is a novice. They are all knowledgeable, theologians with some having masters degrees and Ph.D's and you now say because you are primate, everybody will see things your way. No way. They will argue and disagree. So you have to be ahead, prayerfully. You want to keep everything in focus under God, praying God to help you go through it and see the vision God has given to you and that he will also give it to them. Bishops are not the easiest people to lead, I can tell you. Politicians are easier to lead. You know why? In politics, the more you look, the less you see. Those who fight in the day, at night, they are friends. They wine and dine together. But bishops, each one will tell you, he's autonomous in his diocese. You say I should come, well, because he respects you or what ever, he will come. If he says, he doesn't want to come; you have no police to arrest him. In the church, all you do is continue to appeal, and that’s why it's more difficult. The Primate doesn't have any instrument to coerce anybody. You are no longer a leader or shepherd once you begin to coerce. So you must humble yourself, be perceptive and convincing under God. And prayerfully too so that what you are seeing, they should see it too. And that's why it's more difficult. In politics, you can do whatever you like and get away with it. You can bribe your way through, but in the church you can't do that. But I pray that politics too will be sanitized and there will be less corruption and evil in it.
Leisure time
Primate: I used to play table tennis but now I take a long walk if I can. That's all I have time for now. Where's the time? Is it when I'm thinking about Nigeria, Africa or the global South? They won't let me rest! Everybody wants a little bit of me, every second. I have about 18 million Anglicans and 94 bishops so where's the time to go and start watching football, for instance.
(Church of Nigeria News)
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